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balancing marital arts with weight lifting

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lately i've been interested in taking up muay thai but i also want to continue my weight lifting (and weight gaining lol)

 

i weigh around 80kg now, my goal is to be 100kg bulked, and somewhere between 90-95kg lean.

 

will doing muay thai hinder my lifting goals and/or will lifting hinder muay thai training or it possible to find a balance between the two.

 

i guess my speed will suffer due to the greater weight but i've read muay thai fighters train for strength and explosiveness so that would assist in moving fast wouldnt it?

and then there's the possibility of over training

 

would i be better off getting to my target weight before starting muay thai?

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i'd say for muay Thai, trying to big with weight training will make you way too slow....

 

Have you seen muay Thai guys train?

 

no wieghts.

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I just looked up CroCrop's weight and he weight 98kg. He's 6-2 or 6-3 though. He's pretty quick and quite successfull.

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I hate people who say a persons speed will suffer if they gain some muscle...

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and i hate it when people think you get big by doing big weights..

you get big by eating.

you get stronger, faster, better quality muscle by combining the two.

so essentially, you will be bigger, more ,powerful, and faster if you focus on power and strength training. mainly compound excersizes focusing on the posterior chain etc.. im pretty sure ive seen a vid of cro-cop squatting

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i'd say for muay Thai, trying to big with weight training will make you way too slow....

 

Have you seen muay Thai guys train?

 

no wieghts.

My dad's a big boy - been doing martial arts/military training and weights since he was about 17, is now 43 - (last time I trained with him, he was ~100kg) and he is a scary person to train with, let alone fight. I can't even hold the kicking pads properly and I'm 73kg. Holding them dead stiff, I slide backwards on carpet. :wacko: So he makes me stand up against a pillar. About 10 kicks in, I'm ready to cry. :lol:

 

And hes not slow. You only get slow when you're so big, you cant wipe your own asshole anymore.

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i'd say for muay Thai, trying to big with weight training will make you way too slow....

 

Have you seen muay Thai guys train?

 

no wieghts.

My dad's a big boy - been doing martial arts/military training and weights since he was about 17, is now 43 - (last time I trained with him, he was ~100kg) and he is a scary person to train with, let alone fight. I can't even hold the kicking pads properly and I'm 73kg. Holding them dead stiff, I slide backwards on carpet. :wacko: So he makes me stand up against a pillar. About 10 kicks in, I'm ready to cry. :lol:

 

And hes not slow. You only get slow when you're so big, you cant wipe your own asshole anymore.

 

f**k lol, and i'd have to take kicks from people that size if i fight other people once i'm in that weight class

 

i'd say for muay Thai, trying to big with weight training will make you way too slow....

 

Have you seen muay Thai guys train?

 

no wieghts.

 

thats fine for those who want to weigh 70kg

 

intrested in what express has to say about balancing out training sessions with weight lifting as i've read in a few of his posts that he does kickboxing

 

especially since training is on monday and wednesday nights (45min sessions) because there days i'd usually be in the gym lifting

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i came across a site from a muay thai gym overseas that said

 

* Weight training – You will undergo weight training exercises aimed at developing the strength and size of your skeletal muscles (muscles used to facilitate movement by applying force to bones and joints). In fact it will be very beneficial for your overall health.

* Body weight resistance exercises – You will be made to do push-ups, squats, squat thrusts, pull-ups, dips, etc. They will help you in developing your athleticism (balance, body control, coordination).

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It'll be hard to maintain decent size and be good at muay thai.

That's assuming you train heaps in muay thai, to be good at it.

 

If anything, you'll be very lean, but with not a lot of mass. (if you start from where you are now.)

That's a good thing if you like the thin but cut look. If you don't, keep bulking first!

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It'll be hard to maintain decent size and be good at muay thai.

That's assuming you train heaps in muay thai, to be good at it.

 

If anything, you'll be very lean, but with not a lot of mass. (if you start from where you are now.)

That's a good thing if you like the thin but cut look. If you don't, keep bulking first!

 

i'd be training in muay thai only 2 times a week for 45 min sessions

 

i eat big as it is now n lift 3 times a week (skinny guy routine)

 

i was thinkin prehaps cut the lifting down to 2 times a week and possibly increasing my food intake some more to compensate

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'Ghosty' what makes you the expert mate?? Have you ever stepped into the ring? Have you practiced a fighting form??

 

'HANS3N'

my dads this my dads that....

is he a champion Muay thai fighter is he?

 

For who ever is interested go down to your local muay thai school (not MMA, strictly muay thai)

ask who their best, fittest fighter is & ask him how he trains & if it includes hitting the gym & pumping iron.

 

i actually train weights as well as training martial arts, but muay thai is not my style, my style is more suited to strength than agility & speed.

 

Has anyone here been to Thailand??

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I hate people who say a persons speed will suffer if they gain some muscle...
'Ghosty' what makes you the expert mate?? Have you ever stepped into the ring? Have you practiced a fighting form??

 

2EZ - I've studied wing chun for 16months. Found it was pretty useless for sport fighting (i.e. just not the same, the principals were very interesting though), so I used kickboxing in the ring instead. I only did hard sparring with my karate friends (who funny enough, when it comes to comps/the ring, also just refer back to kickboxing lol). No comps, no RL fights, lost interest TBH. I was in the game long enough to learn what I needed to know to help me in RL situations if they ever arise, and yeah. For a long time I had a full size bag, I used to train with just for the sake of boredom (I can't sit still. "Sloth" is not in my genetic makeup). I have come from 48kg to 62kg, that's a 14kg gain in weight, I am still as fast and agile as I ever was. What better proof then to speak from ones own experience. I plan to gain another 10-20kg over the next year, I guarentee you I will still be quick. The type of weight lifting I do is to build "explosive power", how can I be getting slower? :lol:. Please make no mistake I claim to give out NO tips or info on fighting, I'm not a fighter (I don't have the mind set), but I do know about the cardio & strength benefits of fight training. Look at the majority of k1 fighters, they are skinny, lean-muscular on the verge of anorexic, but that's because they are similar to Nigerian runners....they can punch and kick all day. Are they strong? With bodyweight exercises yes, but can they squat 300lb's? Probably not. It's not their job. Horses for courses.

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'HANS3N'

my dads this my dads that....

is he a champion Muay thai fighter is he?

He has fought in Bangkok. He won some, he lost some. He earned his black belt in a couple MA's as well as trained Muay Thai for many years. He started with normal Boxing as a teenager and progressed from there. Was in the French Foreign Legion and the German Navy Minentaucher Kompanie - same as a "SEAL" except Germany only trained about 50 in the entire country at the time. So I believe he knows how to conduct himself in any kind of fight. He's been training me since I was 11, granted I've taken a few years off recently. When we go hit the piss together, I'm forever and a day pulling him away from kicking people's asses. Which he gladly does.

 

He's been training weights just as long as he's been fighting. And if you ever see him train, you will see he is not slow. He is down under 90kg now though. All I said was to be SLOW you're going to have to be MASSIVE. Guys with muscles can be just as fast as little dudes. Now don't go comparing Buakaw to the stereotypical "body builder." Those kinds of body builders don't train in MA's at the same time, and don't train for that kind of explosive power. If you do both, you can achieve the right results - you're not going to be Mr Olympia (well, not traditionally, but one day some genetic freak'll come through and bust everyone's perceptions) but you're not going to be SlowBro either (yes, I did just reference a Pokemon, but you know what I mean). Or else sprinters wouldn't train weights either.

 

Muay Thai fighters are training for a full timed fight. I've NEVER seen a 1-on-1 street fight go for more than 1 minute. You don't need to train to keep going all day and night if its just for self defense or leisurely activity. Why should he quit weightlifting to start learning Muay Thai? Its illogical. I'm sure by the time he gets skilled enough in Muay Thai that his bottleneck is no longer his technique but rather his build, he will easily be able to adjust his training regime to suit.

 

For who ever is interested go down to your local muay thai school (not MMA, strictly muay thai)

ask who their best, fittest fighter is & ask him how he trains & if it includes hitting the gym & pumping iron.

 

i actually train weights as well as training martial arts, but muay thai is not my style, my style is more suited to strength than agility & speed.

 

Has anyone here been to Thailand??

Yes. A few times and have booked another month there at the end of this year. My Dad has been living there 6 months out of a year for the last 4 or 5 years now. I've done a fair bit of traveling growing up and Thailand is my favourite country by far. We have a holiday place there at the moment, and for a couple years my dad had an apartment in Bangkok.

 

Am I going to train at one of their camps? No. Hells no.

 

No need to crank out the attitude. Some of us may be light hearted in our replies, but doesn't mean we're complete idiots. We hope. :)

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i was like ----- close to going to train in thailand for a few months, decided to goto uni instead.

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i've been invited by a friend to stay with him in thailand when he goes every year, so the possibility of training there is open to me and i probably will eventually take it up :)

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What ever happened to just going to Thailand to relax, pick up other woman and have a good time in the sun?

 

Everyone seems to have gone all Jean claude Van damme about Thailand :ph34r:

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What ever happened to just going to Thailand to relax, pick up other woman and have a good time in the sun?

 

Everyone seems to have gone all Jean claude Van damme about Thailand :ph34r:

 

Everyone realised they were actually men and not women, got mad and started kicking palm trees :ph34r:

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theres alot of cardio involved, but its possibly to weight train and train in moo thai at the same time. my trainer successfully did that. he noted that whilst he put on a few kilos (his food bill went up) and he did look alot bigger, that his speed did diminish slightly, but not enough to make him want to drop back down.

 

Also having said that. my cousin is a big boy, hes around 110-115 kilos, but hes been doing martial arts all his life (karate black belt (forget which dan, but he was the youngest in aus to ever get to it) and hes also heavily into BJJ now) and hes frighteningly quick for someone of his size. really struck me when i saw him move. almost seemed unnatural for someone so big... Now hes not a weight trainer, hes a naturally solid, bear of a bloke, but having trained all his life his speed is definately there...

 

Technique first, power follows.

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thanks for the reply posts fellas, no attitude here just putting out my opinion..

 

Ghosty - i have also trained 'wing chun' for about 7 years now, 16 months will offer you nothing in that style or any other style. Doesn't sound like you've stepped into a real fight/spar situation, where if you don't perform you'll be in pain for the next 2 months, there fore can you really comment?? Training explosive power is fine & i agree will not diminish your speed, for that movement. Do you sorta see what i'm getting at?

 

HANS3N - your dad sounds really experienced! Do you train with him at all? I guess my input into this whole topic is comming from a traditional Muay Thai point of view, very different to the military/boxing background of your dad etc... Some people may be a natural in combat, combining strength, speed, power but in my opinion for a true muay thai fighter building your body using weights would not be included in that equation.

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Ghosty - i have also trained 'wing chun' for about 7 years now, 16 months will offer you nothing in that style or any other style. Doesn't sound like you've stepped into a real fight/spar situation, where if you don't perform you'll be in pain for the next 2 months, there fore can you really comment?? Training explosive power is fine & i agree will not diminish your speed, for that movement. Do you sorta see what i'm getting at?

Nop :no:

 

For my original comment, style is irrelevant. To simplify what I was saying, just take 'punching' and 'kicking' for example. You gain weight and continue to train the way you are, you'll most likely be hitting harder because you have more mass to throw at the target, and at the same speed. I have done this myself.

 

*Side note: Like I said in my second post, I have done hard contact sparring (only gloves and mouth guard), mock fights (as in timed rounds with modified shoot boxing rules) in a ring at PCYC - used to be a regular weekend thing with friends from school who shared the same interest. I have never competed in any sort of competition and have never really been in a real fight where I've snapped.

 

BTW, what lineage did you train in? I hope you don't say WT :ph34r:..:rolleyes:..:ph34r:..:ph34r:

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i do some muay thai, its awesome. and have been weight lifting for 4 or so years now.

 

its the lack of flexibleness that got to me, those kicks and knee moves really need flexible legs, same with your back.

 

so annoying when you pull and hamstring and have to bitch out on sparring.

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BTW, what lineage did you train in? I hope you don't say WT :ph34r:..:rolleyes:..:ph34r:..:ph34r:

 

 

Yip Man's, but if you want the history of where the wing chun i learnt came from i'd have to pull out some dusty books...

 

Also practiced some mainland technique as well, but i never trained traditional at all, concentrated on more freestyle/street fighting if you like.. sh*t that works.

 

 

Look, all i'll say is training weights could benefit an individual depending on style of fighting used & uses they wish to achieve with it period.

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In traditional muay thai there may not be weight training but k1 has alot of muay thai exponents and alot of those guys a built and still quick. The fastest men (running) in the world do weights. In traditional martial arts it is frowned upon to do weights but then lifting rocks leads to big smiles. There are plenty of big slow guys but that is mainly because they don't train MA. They try and muscle through the punch or kick and are just redicuously slow and lacking in power. These guys I believe created the myth of the big slow guy. On the other hand take a look at tyson big and fast.

 

My personal opinion is that big doesn't help but being strong does. I have incorporated weights into my training for that purpose and will be interested to seeing the results. I'm an only going to increase my mass when my strength gains stop. On the otherhand I don't believe being big (well being stupid huge probably is but what most would consider big) is a handicap and I think all the big fighters in K1, boxing, MMA (obvious advantage being big here with the grappling although I'm sure Royce Gracie would disagree, despite recently losing to mat thorton), sanshou, etc provide strong evidence towards that.

 

Even stupid huge has done OK in K1. Bopp Sapp has still won more that lost although CroCrop did make him look pretty silly. Back to muay thai i don't think the thai's are so good because they don't do weights. Fighting is a way of life for them, it is a way out of being poor, it is the countries national sport. They train like mad men. Look at the top fighters they have like 400 fights to there name. That is why they are good not because they don't do weights.

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Exackly fighting is their way of life. The place i was thinking of going to train, takes in younger guys from poor backgrounds (6-10 years) and trains them for free and when they fight there able to keep the winnings for themselves/families.

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Keep in mind getting the technique right will take plenty of time before you're throwing decent kicks for your size.

 

I've seen people study TKD, from the State coach, which is almost completely kicking, for over 6 months and still not be able to throw a decent instep or roundhouse kick. Muay Thai you've also gotta learn how to use your other weapons - your knees, elbows, fists, and possibly your head.

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i'd say for muay Thai, trying to big with weight training will make you way too slow....

 

Have you seen muay Thai guys train?

 

no wieghts.

My dad's a big boy - been doing martial arts/military training and weights since he was about 17, is now 43 - (last time I trained with him, he was ~100kg) and he is a scary person to train with, let alone fight. I can't even hold the kicking pads properly and I'm 73kg. Holding them dead stiff, I slide backwards on carpet. :wacko: So he makes me stand up against a pillar. About 10 kicks in, I'm ready to cry. :lol:

 

And hes not slow. You only get slow when you're so big, you cant wipe your own asshole anymore.

 

f**k lol, and i'd have to take kicks from people that size if i fight other people once i'm in that weight class

 

i'd say for muay Thai, trying to big with weight training will make you way too slow....

 

Have you seen muay Thai guys train?

 

no wieghts.

 

thats fine for those who want to weigh 70kg

 

intrested in what express has to say about balancing out training sessions with weight lifting as i've read in a few of his posts that he does kickboxing

 

especially since training is on monday and wednesday nights (45min sessions) because there days i'd usually be in the gym lifting

 

Yeh, i have always tried to balance the two.. my schedule was roughly, monday chest and shoulders, tuesday kickboxing, wed back, thursday kickboxing, friday off, sat arms and stomach sunday off.... and made small lean muscle gains but nothing much at all!! by FAR the biggest problem with this was i couldnt REALLY push myself because if i did the next day i would be training on sore muscle, and we all know this doesnt get anyone anywhere!

 

The cadio in kickboxing takes alot out of you, and requires alot of energy source, taken from both mucle and fat stores, unfortunatly i dont have much in the way of fat stores. For me i find theres nothing much more intensive that a tough kickboxing training session!!

 

The biggest problem being i enjoy kickboxing so much that i didnt want to stop and to me wasnt worth the muscle gains (whats the point in having all that mucle if you cant use it) - i personally think if your naturally a lean person and you want to bulk up... you will find it incredibly hard if your kickboxing aswell - unless your eating CR£pLOADS.

 

recently I made a commitment to give squatting and legs a real go, in the last week - week and a half i have put on 3-4 kilos since stopping kickboxing and running all together, probably fat and mucle, at least i hope its not all fat, i have also lost a bit of flexability in my legs, i need to keep stretching!!

 

If i were to be training for kicboxing only, i would be doing minimal weights - bodyweight exercises i find are the best when combining with kickboxing - crunches, chins, pushups, dips.

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if the bigger blokes can do it and still remain as flexible as they do i think i can do it too,

but for my height i'm starting to think prehaps 100kg bulked/90ish lean is pushing it

 

i rekon i might get into it now at 80kg and see how i go for a month or two while keeping my big eating up and cutting out a lot of the dirty carbs i was eating

 

Won't be giving up squating though :P

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yeh you wont have a problem with flexibility if you stretch properly after training. And your doing the best thing possible with kickin the carbs to the curb!! good luck!

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Most people use weights to help them with their chosen sport,be it football,basketball,soccer.Weights has to take a secondary role to the sport you are competing in.You hit the weights hard in the off season,make the majority of your gains,then cut the weights down to a maintenance level during the season.Dont let weights affect your competition.

 

If you are not competing in martial arts,then this thread is a waste of time in my opinion.It will have minimal impact on your martial arts,so do what your body will allow,it just becomes common sense.If you are not competing,its off season all the time.

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